400 stores nationwide, where queen mattresses start at just $699. sleep number. comfort. individualized. to find your store, visit sleepnumber.com. >> megyn: it's not that the radical sheik didn't want to hear anything from more from steve emerson. apparently they get confused and our technical folks thought we had to go to break and we didn't and put us off the air too early. they make mistakes, i make them all mie the time. we apologizing the confusing end to the last hour and confusing end to the steve emerson interview. we'll have him back on monday. very interesting insights. we appreciate you bearing with us with technical snafus. now, there is this.

[ gun shots ] >> megyn: with that, boston's nightmare came to an end and the healing and search for answers hopefully begins. brand-new hour of a special saturday edition of america live. welcome everyone. i'm megyn kelly. came in today and we wanted to be here to try not just button what we saw last week but advance this story and where we go from here. 102-manhunt brought to close when authorities tracked down the second of two suspects. i followed door-to-door search efforts. d tar star now in custody expected to be charged at any time. he is in a hospital but under custody. his brother is dead, tamerian

tsarnaev and news prompted cheers and tears from the locals who have been on so on edge this week expressing gratitude to the men and women trying to capture these two men. president obama watched the whole thing unfold on television and got a abbreviating from national security staffers. he says it brings a chapter to a close but they deserve the motive in one of the most horrifying terror attacks in the nation's history. >> reporter: good to see you. a sense of relief as you can see from the pictures and sound from boston and also here at the white house what has been a long week at the white house but also west, texas going through an horrific situation. when the president came into the briefing room he noted that, as well. people dealing with tremendous

grief in west, texas. he was following all the riveting moments on television and then he got a briefing officially informing him that the second suspect had been taken into custody alive. he got a phone call from robert mueller informing him about the details and the president talked about the nation coming together. take a listen. >> boston police and state police and local police across the commonwealth of massachusetts responded with professionalism and bravery over five long days. tonight because of their determined efforts, we closed an important chapter in this tragedy. >> reporter: people coming together. the president himself noting there is still a lot of unanswered questions in this investigation and there will undoubtedly be a lot of big debates in the days ahead, what you do with the terrorist who is in custody. as you know they didn't read miranda rights because of a

public safety exception. he will not have the right to remain silent for a couple of days to try to find out if there are more plots. they agreed with the decision but they put out a statement, senator lindsay graham and john mccain and peter king that went on to say, however, limiting this investigation to 48 hours and exclusively regularly on the exception to miranda could limit our ability to gather critical information about future attacks from this suspect. bottom line is what knees republican lawmakers are calling for is the suspect be officially classified as an enemy combatant. not that he would face a military tribunal but the interrogation could go on longer an couple of days. there may be some people in the administration that believe such a long interrogation could taint the eventual prosecution in a civilian court.

there will be a healthy debate about this in the days ahead. for now, they focusing on a great sense of relief, not just in boston but here in the white house, in the early stages of the investigation. we don't know what else is out there. >> megyn: thank you. top team of terror people across the administration getting together. they've been together getting ready to question this man. when he is able to answer questions they'll get to it. >> the headlines are celebrating the capture of the marathon bombing suspect. here is front page of the boston globe, it reads, "nightmare's end. it's end line "sunk." but it's whether they should be cautious about being too celebratory about events leading up to the terror attack. take a listen to this man that lives in watertown.

>> i feel it took way too long. he is 19-year-old kid. they had every form of government, national guard, f.b.i., even secret service for a while. i just feel like three days is way too long to take to catch a 19-year-old kid. >> megyn: joining me is a former police detective, mark, we all know the guilty and evil parties here. it is a fair discussion in the wake of something like this, let's look back and analyze how we can improve the system so we can protect more americans next time around. i include in that in the police officer that was killed in the shootout after they did the bombing. your thoughts on that. i tell you, that is what a lot of folks are asking, 19-year-old kid last this long against thousands of police officers, secret service agents, you name

it. your thoughts. >> when i look at this, boston police, watertown police, state police, all the surrounding agencies, they started from zero and they had to come up to speed after the bombing. i think in that case they did an incredible job. they were aggressive and professional. they took the fight to the terrorists whatever they put forward. that being said, we have the russian government contacting this country that they have somebody that they find to be extremely radicalized and living in the city of boston. you know, when you have a tough country and tough people like russians saying this guy is dangerous, maybe we should actually listen. supposedly the f.b.i. had someone go out and scrub him. you know, you look and say, criminal records and look at

what he is doing and talk to him and friends' family, neighbors -- great. the idea is go under the radar and go ahead and confess. my question is on that fact, was it documented? was it put into a database? certainly his driver's license was obtained electronically. when you look at this, i ask one question to the director. f.b.i. that was just on your last hour's segment. i'm going comment on that. they should have put music to that tap dance. it angers me that people get killed and then we have bureaucrats, that is what he is -- he starts making excuses before the facts come out to wait for the facts that yet nobody actually even come up with. i ask one question. was that information that the

f.b.i. garnered from russia and state department and their investigation given to the boston police or the boston police anti-terrorist unit? if they didn't give it to them, nothing was done. >> megyn: your point is that you got to give it to local authorities, local cops interacting with the community? >> look at this. you know, you wonder how you get to be the number three man in the f.b.i. and be a director. the answer, don't spend too much time in the field. those guys in this country, every department, every side, they are just as sharp as any f.b.i. agent and they know their area and they know their people and know how to do street work. unfortunately in this country, information to do with these types of criminals, the information is the most important people in the biggest office and highest level of building get the most information.

the guy working the streets actually contact these individuals gets zero. >> megyn: he is talking about, mark, steve palmer is not the guy on the clock for this stuff. he was the former number three. >> he is making the excuse. >> megyn: he has been there. i'm place devil's advocate. he is saying perhaps hundred or more of these tips from different foreign countries every week. we look into them. some pan out. he looks into this guy. it didn't pan out. what they said, the f.b.i. is going to run a background check, his overseas travel, had a sit-down interview and mother said they came to her house. there wasn't anything that set off alarm bells at the time. >> that being said. that is fine.

give the information from russia to the f.b.i. through the state department, give it to boston police and so they know. if they did, megyn, if they did, he would have been the first people that popped up two ours after the bombing. >> megyn: that is a good question. why didn't he pop up anyway? forget whether had he told the boston pd or not. if you are the guy looking into the case, you looked into him. we have a bombing. then you have a tape and with the f.b.i. you have a videotape of these two guys. are looking and figuring out how to put it out for the public. wait a minute, hey, he looks familiar. i'm the boston guy and i looked

into the following possible radical suspects in this area. let me go back again and see if any of them look like this guy? >> absolutely. the answer, it wasn't in the database or the database wasn't accessible to the boston police. we have to say this. either his information was recorded in an accessible file and law enforcement or was not. if only accessible to the f.b.i. why did they not access it at that moment. the information had to go somewhere. we get hundreds and thousands, too bad, too sad, get more people. we got too much business so we aren't going to do anything well. we probed in this and scrubbed this. if you done all you corks give it to the locals. information sharing, intelligence sharing. f.b.i. doesn't like to give

information out. they want to keep it. >> megyn: we will have a frank discussion in the days and weeks. mark, thank you. coming up, are we in a war on terror or war against al-qaeda? and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. alright, right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me. ♪ [ male announcer ] pass down something he will be grateful for. the rdable midsi passat. and you'll be grateful right now during springtoberfest where you can lease one of four different volkswagen models for under $200 a month. that's the power of german engineering.

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>>. president obama sees a fight against the jihadists but instead we are at war with al-qaeda which attacked us on 9/11 and killed 3,000 people. we are at war with extremist allies that seeks to carry out their murderous agenda. these are the terrorists will be defeated. >> megyn: that is current c.i.a. director john brennan. insisting that america is not fighting a war on terror but a war on al-qaeda. but after the boston bombing and

fort hood shooting and attempted bombing in tames square, is it time for this administration to rethink the way it defines this conflict. robert masaden is an official in counter terrorism. bob, that is the question. is this a war against al-qaeda as the president says, or is this a war on terror and something much broader and more widespread than al-qaeda? >> it's the latter in my opinion going back with experience over my career, megyn. whether you take hard-core extremists, right wing ideology that motivates them or perhaps in the tragedy over the last few days. when you talk about the term war on terrorism, from my career, it seemed like an apt term what

happened after 9/11. many people didn't have a problem with that. as time went on and for me and my experience and time in the middle east after the u.s. went into iraq, a lot of my liaison contacts seems that was a ui fem i is a war on the developing war. >> megyn: that is what the president was worried about. according to john brennan, he says, describing the terrorists as jihadists or using that different phraseology, jihad means to purify one self for a moral goal. it gives the murderers legitimacy and john brennan seems to say we don't want to refer it on a war on jihad or war on terror, just al-qaeda. i mean, it's not necessarily

just al-qaeda. >> no, it's not. part of the unfortunate outgrowth of this debate that we are in right now, the terms and meanings like, jihad what it means in arabic for a native speaker much different in the context in the west. i agree with what brennan says in principle. >> do they agree with the word, jihad is not a dirty word? >> overwhelmingly in the muslim world, no it is not. >> megyn: regular muslim world, not radical? >> right, and the context is very difficult and becomes a distraction when we talk about these matters. >> megyn: how do you define it and does it matter? when they see a guy yelling allah akbar and we're told that

is is not terrorism, that is workplace violence -- people aren't being honest who is after us? >> where we have what happened over the last few days is very important to find out what happened with the older brother. was he part of a group that trained him and tasked him or something where it was self-motivation. >> megyn: why does it matter? if the inspiration this kill the infidel and kill everybody in the west and inspire your children to perform jihad. do we care if it is al-qaeda inspired or because they hate the west and islamic code? >> those things you mention for muslims is aberrant behavior. it's not the just the foot soldiers that are important that security apparatus they'll go

over, it's that toxic philosophy of violence is the only answer to grievances. that is the important thing, fighting that philosophy. >> megyn: doesn't seem like we're going to change hearts or minds? >> counter narrative, 3 60-degree approach, ngos like-minded allies, the intelligence and military will continue to go on. they have done phenomenal work since 9/11 but the missing ingredient is the counter narrative to violence. >> megyn: up next watertown, massachusetts resident found himself standing 40 feet from the biggest story in ten years. a front row seat, man in a front row seat to the capture of d that are tar. >> they believe someone is in

the boat. >> we have a person -- there is a person in the boat. last time. ♪

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>> we have a person in the boat. >> shots fired. >> multiple shots fired here, okay.

everyone hold their fire. hold their fire. >> molly: that was audio from police scanners as s.w.a.t. teams converged on dzhokar tsarnaev's hiding place last night. he climbed into a family's boat that was in the family's backyard after a shootout with police happened about 1:30 a.m. thursday night into friday that left his brother dead. whole day the police searched where the younger brother was. when this particular homeowner went outside of his house, he noticed blood on his boat. that is when he lifted the tarp and saw what looked like a crumpled body. his frantic 911 call triggering a massive police response that ended in the suspect's capture. he was captured alive. george lives a few doors down from where dzhokar tsarnaev was hiding.

he joins us now by phone. george, amazing to talk to you. thank you so much. what was the first word that you had from the boat and homeowner we're talking about that he had found dzhokar tsarnaev? >> well, it was about 6:00 and i was out in the yard and grandkids and enjoying the last part of the day. i looked over and i saw my neighbor on the porch. it was a police officer holding him. he had a gray sweater on and i said, gee, look at the guy with the gray sweater. i hope they don't think he is person. then i saw another officer with david's wife beth pushing them down the street. i said come on, get in the house. they told everyone to get in the house.

he was in shock actually. he wasn't sure what he saw. he kept saying, tell me, did i see what i thought i saw? did i see what i thought i saw? then when he got in the car the whole place filled up the whole neighborhood was filled with police vehicles. he calmed down a little bit. he told me he went out in the backyard and his backdoor faces his boat which is like 20 feet away. he noticed there were some things different underneath the back of the boat. this is the 24-foot power boat and it's on a trailer so it is up high and they had winter shrink wrap. very tight. it didn't look like anything was wrong but when he walked over, it was a little loose. he went in the garage and got a ladder and put it up against the

side of the boat. he has a cover and a ziper to get inside. he started to go up to the ladder and he saw blood on the deck and blood on the side. then he looked in and he has a box that has the engine that is raised on the back deck. he thought he saw a body behind it. he got right down and ran into the house. he called 911. he was still on the telephone when he was coming across the street. don't hang up. keep talking, keep talking. they came right into the house and then everything converged on the neighborhood. it was quiet for a little while, maybe 45 minutes. then we heard hundreds of rounds of gunfire going off. >> megyn: how soon after david had identified the body in the boat did the police show up?

>> how soon, they were there in minutes. they weren't a mile away on arsenal street where they were staged searching everywhere. they were already people in the neighborhood. they were there were state troopers. >> megyn: was david scared? were he and beth scared? >> yes, they were panicking. they were panicking. like i said. they were both in shock. they couldn't believe what was happening. here we're stuck in the house all day while searching all over town and he finds them in his backyard. >> megyn: how old is david? >> i think he was born in 1948. >> megyn: so he is, in his 60s. so did it occur to him -- did he

see dzhokar tsarnaev move at all. was he stirring. did he get an extent of injuries? >> he just saw the blood and saw the legs, a body laying down. i believe he was probably crashed out. >> megyn: had he been home all day? >> highway they were home all day and all night. when he got away from the gunfight with his brother, he somehow found his way down into this area and somehow he managed to get inside this tightly covered boat without leaving too many marks. he was probably crashed out and there all that time. there were a lot of shots fired and then it was quiet. then, i would say maybe around 8:00 or 8:30, the state police bomb squad with big heavy equipment, they came down the

street. they were out in front of the house and they closed the doors. >> megyn: we watched the conclusion play out on live tv. we have a hard break. george, all the best to you and your neighbors. thank you so much. when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. from capital one...

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>>. >> megyn: breaking news for you on the bombing at the boston marathon as we learn about possible ties between the suspect who was killed and an al-qaeda linked terror group.

chief correspondent is live in washington. katherine? >> reporter: investigators are exploring potential links between the older brother and extremist group. it included chechnya and contents of youtube channel. among the videos deleted from the play list were links to another group which is associated with the kauk es es emirate. it received a similar designation by the united nations and taliban sanctions committee also in that year. we were told this is one of many threats investigators are following now. they are looking at this extremist group in kaukes region. >> joining me is talking to the enemy, faith, brotherhood and

the unmaking of terrorists. you come up on the heels of that report, not a particular surprise that the older brother may have been inspired by a group. we talked to steve about radical postings he promoted on his youtube channel. by all accounts the friends that knew him, great guy, sweet kid. how did he go from that to this in your experience in. >> good question. mostly in tran signatures stages in their lives, students, immigrants between jobs or girlfriends. they are looking for meaning in life. they are looking for significance. they just left their family or father is usually absent. they are looking for something heroic and adventurous to do. this kind of thing fits in very well for those who are sort of

disafektd and marginalized and that is the case around the world and in this country. >> megyn: does it surprise you that he was married with a young daughter, married to an american woman that converted to islam and went from normal western woman with walking around with a burka. he is married with a kid and was successful boxer. >> again, ordinary people. terrorists in general span the normal distribution. you have crazy kooks and you have sociopaths and brilliant guys but very few. most are normal guys that get sucked into the path of violence because of another family member or a friend. they sort of going into a parallel universe. the way it usually happens they join a broad protest movement.

islam is being attacked across the world. then they decide at a certain moment all this is blah, blah talk and they leave those friends who have been just talking. they hunker down. sometimes they cut ties with their friends and they look to whichever friends and family members that would be willing to join them. they go into a cocoohey have a handy man sort of approach. they come up with a plot. they have no idea how they are going to or what they are going to do afterwards. often they go out in a blaze of glory. >> megyn: that is how it looked here. madrid bombers, same thing with the london bombers. >> megyn: we're trying to figure out what happened in the days after the bombing. the younger one sent out a tweet stress free kind of guy. looks like he was more influenced by his older brother

who was 7 years old and have a lot of influence over him. what signs would there have been to friends, family and outside community. we had a guest that was critical of the f.b.i. that tamerian was radicalized? >> very little, his neighbors and friends don't know what is going on. parents don't know. when they go into a parallel universe, they bounce off one another. there is no brainwashing, no cells, there is no recruitment. they are self-seekers finds friends. >> megyn: or finding inspiration over internet? >> sometimes he had a friend over there. >> megyn: he went back to russia? >> or finding someone that gives them advice and tell them go home and blow something up. it's not a command and control

organization. >> megyn: i hear you talk about it, i feel scared because how do you defect that guy? >> again, you have to embedded in the neighborhood and communities. we have this manerva research a team called artists embedding ourselves in different places in these neighborhoods. what we find is, you can usually tell things are happening when they drop out from a sports team. >> he dropped out of community college? >> he drop oust college or sports team. then again, they find their friends. they get an apartment together or they start doing activities together. >> megyn: which they also did, he and brother and parents went back to russia and one was in college and one dropped out. some of the signs you're talking about were there? >> a lot of people buy into this

global jihad. 7% of muslims which is not a lot but those that do it, very few go on to violence. the best predictor is if they are involved action orientated group, soccer team, sports group. >> megyn: that is a good sign. they are involved in the community. >> all the attacks are like that. >> megyn: we're short on time but the younger brother, he was successful wrestler. gave him a $2500 scholarship and gave him citizenship and he was very popular. he is a really nice guy and on the prom committee and get people on trolley so people wouldn't drive drunk. this is mind-blowing to me. that that profile could result in what we saw this week. >> that is pretty common. that is what you found all over the jihad. most of these guys are looking

for significance. they haven't withdrawn from day to day life. i was in madrid, for example, and i asked the kids same as they were responsible for suicide bombings in madrid. i was in the neighborhoods. they say number one hero is -- then the terminator and then bin laden and obama's election. i went back same thing except now obama was number three. what is it telling you, some of these kids or looking for role models. they don't know which way to go. if they have someone pulling them this way rather than that way, they are very likely to end up this way. >> megyn: scott, i want you back. thank you very much for being here. we haven't even scratched the surface. a lot of new questions about the case against this boston bombing suspect now in the hospital. what does it mean that the u.s.

attorney says charges could be filed as early as today. you got the boston public defender saying they wanted to defend him. our legal panel is next. man: how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there. i worked a patrol unit for 17 years in the city of baltimore. when i first started experiencing the pain, it's hard to describe because you have a numbness but yet you have the pain like thousands of needles sticking in your foot.

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>> hours haven't started to toll. i looked on this, it doesn't say 48 hours. i think we're saying 48 hours from when he is awake and he can be charged. it's different from the miranda warning. the other thing. don't forget, if he is not given the miranda warning what the worst thing that can happen? you don't think they have a case without the statement. >> megyn: they have videotape of him placing the bomb. >> they make a calculated decision, getting lawyered up or going forward and getting the bad guys that are still out there. >> megyn: it will be tough to find a jury not willing to convict. death penalty versus not. we're getting overhead shot of the boat where the suspect was last night. this one is less clear.

we're going put these on the screen. why is the boston public defender's office so anxious to get involved. >> probably running to the ideological on to the cynical. >> megyn: you think they are unhappy he hasn't been given miranda yet? >> good point. even if he had been given it and made statements and it's a slam-dunk case on video. they knead don't need any of it. >> megyn: so a confession in terms of figuring out the larger war on terror. >> it's a legitimate exception but a threat to public safety. >> megyn: let's move on. last night the u.s. attorney refused to come out and say whether this is going to be a death penalty case.

it's up to eric holder and they were. >> is it possible they are not going to pursue the death penalty? >> i can't imagine this. he is not just a conspirator, co-conspirator. like timothy mcveigh and mcnichols. nichols was there as a conspirator. he got life and mcveigh got death. here the two brothers are doing it together. they are delivering bombs together. they are equally as culpable. certainly the argument can be made that the little brother was influenced by the big brother, but he was there. i don't see if they don't get the death penalty unless there is so much more can give hem them. >> if he can cooperate and much larger conspiracy then they may take it off the case. the other point i would repeat it may turn out he was under

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your bad back, call now. call the number on your screen for your free information kit with dvd brochure and price list. call now and we'll include a free $50 savings card. call now for your free information and this free $50 savings card. call now! >>. >> megyn: lis wiehl and doug burns back with me. so they will when he gets a lawyer try to paint this guy. >> no question. >> megyn: sweet faced younger brother and would have been an up standing citizen if it wasn't the older brother. >> it will come out in the wash and the fact of the matter they will get to the bottom of the truth. that could be true. >> megyn: that is how they are going to sell it to the jury. >> i'm not in a position to say that now. i think it mitigates it.

if in fact, hypothetical, this is essentially a nice kid on a normal track who was badly corrupted by sibling. >> megyn: she 19-year-old man. >> they are going to show this young photo of him. he is such a young kid. the prosecution if they have video of this young kid putting a bomb next to another 8-year-old who is dead now. >> you give it th to jury in a civil case. you put it in front of a jury, there in boston. anywhere in the country they won't let this guy go. >> i don't want to confuse me about doj deciding whether to go forward with the death penalty. i didn't say anything about a jury. as far as arguing, putting a bomb next to a kid. >> absolutely. >> i agree. >> i agree, megyn.

>> megyn: i guess we'll find out. it looks like he'll be tried in civilian court. even lindsay graham is saying that. coming up a dose of boston pride like you've never seen, next. [ male announcer ] a car that can actually see like a human, using stereoscopic cameras. ♪ and even stoitself if it h to. ♪ the technology may be hard to imagine. but why you would want it... is not. the 2014 e-class. it doesn't just see the future. it is the future.

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